Infighting threatens Occupy Las Vegas movement
Watch The Video Here
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
@OccupyBankREO , @OccupyLasVegas , @OccupyUtahMedia @RobertPaisola
Posted: Nov. 10, 2011 | 6:04 p.m.
It began as a small protest with an emphasis on ending corporate greed and influence in politics.
But the Occupy Las Vegas movement seems to have lost focus as it has grown, with its message plagued by squabbling among protesters that caused the group to split up.
OccupyLV was formed earlier this week by protesters formerly associated with the encampment on a 1.4-acre swath of county land between Paradise Road and Swenson Street.
A handful of these 30 or so protesters claim they were banned from the property by Occupy Las Vegas members, who hold a 30-day lease with the county set to expire Nov. 21, for voicing their opinions about how the occupation should move forward and for disobeying the group's rules by speaking out of turn at general assembly meetings.
OccupyLV members meet twice a week at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and have no plans of finding an occupation site.
Gina M. Sully , who was once the media coordinator for Occupy Las Vegas, is now a member of the OccupyLV group after she was banned from the property for "demanding transparency" about why people were being ejected, she said.
"Political activism doesn't have to be angry or ugly," Sully said.
There are no definite plans for an occupation site, "but occupation is a way, not a place. ... I want to stress that it's not separate. Organizers and community activists would call this an affinity group. Some want to do it one way, others want to do it another way, but they're working toward the same thing."
Both groups identify with the national Occupy Wall Street movement, which has experienced backlash from law enforcement elsewhere nationwide. News reports and video clips of police firing rounds of tear gas and beanbags at protesters isn't likely to happen in Las Vegas, local groups said, where organizers are working closely with county officials and police.
AGREE TO DISAGREE
In all, about 10 people have been banned from the occupation site, said Sebring Frehner, an Occupy Las Vegas protester. One was caught stealing gas, others spoke out of turn, and a militia group was kicked out for suggesting protesters should be armed because "otherwise people wouldn't pay attention" to the cause.
The site also has attracted 9-11 truthers, anti-Zionists and tea partiers, who have been asked to leave.
Another protester was asked to leave after the group said they discovered he had a criminal record.
Protesters from both groups have agreed that the quarrel isn't about the mission of the movement, and they plan to participate in upcoming protests side by side.
"Both sides are still the 99 percent," said Collin Williams, a member of Occupy Las Vegas. "We're still fighting to end corporate greed in America. The disagreement is over how it's being done, not what we're trying to accomplish."
Frehner said the group probably will not renew the county lease and instead will move its operation to donated warehouse space about six miles northwest of the land. The warehouse location will be more of an "activist action center," he said.
Once the lease is up, the group will focus on its next project: Occupy Foreclosures -- a movement where protesters will seek out people on the brink of losing their homes and offer to risk being arrested while standing in the way of police to draw attention to the "nation's foreclosure capital." (Follow at @OccupyBankREO
Sully said OccupyLV will focus more on Las Vegas-oriented issues, including finding resources for homeowners facing foreclosure.
"We just wanted a more democratic and transparent process," Sully said about the fractured group. "This is kind of heartbreaking."
OCCUPATION HOMELESS
As Occupy Las Vegas activists have left the occupation site, area homeless have moved into the makeshift tent city, comprising the majority of the site's population.
About 60 protesters actively attend meetings on site but do not stay overnight. A handful of occupiers with the movement camp in the tents, and protesters make sure the homeless help clean the campsite and follow the rules -- no drugs or alcohol -- in exchange for food and shelter.
Frehner said the group is trying to bring in social services resources for the camp's homeless residents to eliminate any legal issues. Those Occupy Las Vegas protesters who signed their names to the county lease, including Frehner, have formed Opportunities Las Vegas, a week-old nonprofit organization designed to protect the personal assets of the leaseholders in the event of a lawsuit and to offer a tax-deductible donation option to anonymous donors. No donations have been received by the nonprofit so far, Frehner added.
One protester at the campsite asked to remain anonymous because he said he is involved with both occupation groups.
Some protesters have complained about a "core group" of people who are mostly liberal and seem to have all the power, the man said.
"There were supposed to be no leaders or authority," he said. "There's too much infighting with Occupy Las Vegas. The atmosphere of the other group was so much better."
But the Occupy Las Vegas movement seems to have lost focus as it has grown, with its message plagued by squabbling among protesters that caused the group to split up.
OccupyLV was formed earlier this week by protesters formerly associated with the encampment on a 1.4-acre swath of county land between Paradise Road and Swenson Street.
A handful of these 30 or so protesters claim they were banned from the property by Occupy Las Vegas members, who hold a 30-day lease with the county set to expire Nov. 21, for voicing their opinions about how the occupation should move forward and for disobeying the group's rules by speaking out of turn at general assembly meetings.
OccupyLV members meet twice a week at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and have no plans of finding an occupation site.
Gina M. Sully , who was once the media coordinator for Occupy Las Vegas, is now a member of the OccupyLV group after she was banned from the property for "demanding transparency" about why people were being ejected, she said.
"Political activism doesn't have to be angry or ugly," Sully said.
There are no definite plans for an occupation site, "but occupation is a way, not a place. ... I want to stress that it's not separate. Organizers and community activists would call this an affinity group. Some want to do it one way, others want to do it another way, but they're working toward the same thing."
Both groups identify with the national Occupy Wall Street movement, which has experienced backlash from law enforcement elsewhere nationwide. News reports and video clips of police firing rounds of tear gas and beanbags at protesters isn't likely to happen in Las Vegas, local groups said, where organizers are working closely with county officials and police.
AGREE TO DISAGREE
In all, about 10 people have been banned from the occupation site, said Sebring Frehner, an Occupy Las Vegas protester. One was caught stealing gas, others spoke out of turn, and a militia group was kicked out for suggesting protesters should be armed because "otherwise people wouldn't pay attention" to the cause.
The site also has attracted 9-11 truthers, anti-Zionists and tea partiers, who have been asked to leave.
Another protester was asked to leave after the group said they discovered he had a criminal record.
Protesters from both groups have agreed that the quarrel isn't about the mission of the movement, and they plan to participate in upcoming protests side by side.
"Both sides are still the 99 percent," said Collin Williams, a member of Occupy Las Vegas. "We're still fighting to end corporate greed in America. The disagreement is over how it's being done, not what we're trying to accomplish."
Frehner said the group probably will not renew the county lease and instead will move its operation to donated warehouse space about six miles northwest of the land. The warehouse location will be more of an "activist action center," he said.
Once the lease is up, the group will focus on its next project: Occupy Foreclosures -- a movement where protesters will seek out people on the brink of losing their homes and offer to risk being arrested while standing in the way of police to draw attention to the "nation's foreclosure capital." (Follow at @OccupyBankREO
Sully said OccupyLV will focus more on Las Vegas-oriented issues, including finding resources for homeowners facing foreclosure.
"We just wanted a more democratic and transparent process," Sully said about the fractured group. "This is kind of heartbreaking."
OCCUPATION HOMELESS
As Occupy Las Vegas activists have left the occupation site, area homeless have moved into the makeshift tent city, comprising the majority of the site's population.
About 60 protesters actively attend meetings on site but do not stay overnight. A handful of occupiers with the movement camp in the tents, and protesters make sure the homeless help clean the campsite and follow the rules -- no drugs or alcohol -- in exchange for food and shelter.
Frehner said the group is trying to bring in social services resources for the camp's homeless residents to eliminate any legal issues. Those Occupy Las Vegas protesters who signed their names to the county lease, including Frehner, have formed Opportunities Las Vegas, a week-old nonprofit organization designed to protect the personal assets of the leaseholders in the event of a lawsuit and to offer a tax-deductible donation option to anonymous donors. No donations have been received by the nonprofit so far, Frehner added.
One protester at the campsite asked to remain anonymous because he said he is involved with both occupation groups.
Some protesters have complained about a "core group" of people who are mostly liberal and seem to have all the power, the man said.
"There were supposed to be no leaders or authority," he said. "There's too much infighting with Occupy Las Vegas. The atmosphere of the other group was so much better."
---END OF STORY
---COMMENTS
12pioche wrote on November 10, 2011 09:10 PM: Jack.Webb?? When you have something to post thst is not extreamly stupid, do you post it as Jack.Weeb?? Report abuse
Victim of Metro wrote on November 10, 2011 09:07 PM: @proud democrat: An MS in psychology is probably the most worthless degree in the world. Psychology is the most common major in the U.S. When my daughter started college down in CA, she was told there were no jobs for psychology grads. Do you have a counseling service? If not, what do you do? When something needs to be fixed, you can talk about it, but have absolutely no skills to make, fix, or create anything; without that, I find no joy in working whatsoever. While you are bashing the lawyer man, remember to be a lawyer, you have to pass the bar, which if I understand correctly consists of mock scenarios of peoples' legal problems--real problems, not someone not attracted to his wife or being sad. I really don't think you can be a "proud democrat" and earn much money. If you had your own business, paid quarterly payroll taxes, had to buy materials then beat money out of clients, all the while keeping the staff paid, you would be "proud republican" and probably be leading the TEA party. As for Jack.Webb, he lives with his mother and spends all the time in front of a computer bashing Mormons, Republicans, and everything and anything except Obama.
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proud democrat wrote on November 10, 2011 09:06 PM: So right Jerry....let them eat cake...lol
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 09:06 PM: Alvinjh (Rolling eyes....shaking head, smirking...as he mutters about simple people and their needs)
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Jerry S..Dickinson wrote on November 10, 2011 09:05 PM: Jack.Webb...to finish the list, Clown Prince O'Drama, the ........wait I am searching...google, nothing....Yahoo, nothing......oh, here is something, O'Drama a devout Muslim that traveled the world on a passport not his own, that attended university, yet has no friends ,or records, to prove it.
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 09:05 PM: Here! here! Jerry! A toast to your insight.
May the occupiers grow to be rich in all the ways they can fathom.
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Jack.Weeb wrote on November 10, 2011 09:03 PM: Alvin and dirtroader, both of you simpletons are flat out making S#!+ up!
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 09:03 PM: Judith: [on Stan's desire to be a mother] Here! I've got an idea: Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb - which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans' - but that he can have the *right* to have babies.
Francis: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother... sister, sorry.
Reg: What's the *point*?
Francis: What?
Reg: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies, when he can't have babies?
Francis: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
Reg: It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.
The pythoners actually understood humanity in a way the libs will never..ever...(ever) grasp..
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Jerry S..Dickinson wrote on November 10, 2011 09:02 PM: Any conscious adult over 18 that wants to go to war with rich people, has other stupid ideas as well. It is like taking a fork to a gunfight. You can't beat the rich, you can only join them. You can't join them if you waste time complaining about how unfair life is. Quit you snivveling, dry your noses and get your asses to work.
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Jerry S..Dickinson wrote on November 10, 2011 08:57 PM: So the contrary Mary's can't get along with each other. Anybody else for that matter. The DNC and the SEIU will lose interest and quit funding them any day now and they will all go back to their parents spare room. Another bastion of American freedom diminished. NOT.
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 08:55 PM: Maybe they should Occupy Death Valley.
In July?
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buzz lightyear wrote on November 10, 2011 08:53 PM: @ Alvinjh , great post. If I remember correctly another line from the movie was, "I have followed a lot of messiahs and I am sure you are the one." @jack.off why so angry? I told you months ago to go down and become their leader. You could have stopped all this and had a bunch of brain dead followers. You could have had a small following for your democrat good republican bad nonsense. It would have been almost like a real job and that is what probably scared you off. You have more important things to do here all day every day blogging on the RJ website. What a rich full life you have.
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proud democrat wrote on November 10, 2011 08:51 PM: How much is 53 plus 43? Really you make this too easy...lol
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Jack.Webb wrote on November 10, 2011 08:50 PM: Pick one: 1) Rick Perry -- Alcohol-addled bumbler; 2) Herman Cain -- Sexual predator; 3) Mitt Romney -- Mormon cultist and flip-flopper.
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 08:50 PM: The usual suspects parrot the usual things...in the same tired whiny way. Nothing changes. Manipulators manipulate and whiners whine..and Hamster..hams.. BUT!
We have only 361 more days till we vote on it all. Again.
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dirtroader wrote on November 10, 2011 08:46 PM: Iraq? Huh? Oh, wait, you had to play the liberal card; excuse me. LOL! Gimme a break. Simple math or not, gotta love the Bush tax cuts and how they've helped all the classes except your "lower classes", because of course, THEY DON'T PAY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES! LOL again! Yes, I am part of the 53% that DOES pay taxes; not part of the 43% (you?) who doesn't. Hang onto the CV, lib. I'll hang onto my hard-earned prosperity!
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 08:46 PM: "Occupy Burlington" has a guy shoot himself..the cops are trying to explain they need to investigate. It's a crime scene.
"Occupiers: HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!!"
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Jack.Webb wrote on November 10, 2011 08:45 PM: "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."
--Warren Buffett, CNN Interview, May 25 2005, in arguing the need to raise taxes on the rich
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 08:43 PM: Hamster's different too. Like others of his kind..in exactly the same way..
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Alvinjh wrote on November 10, 2011 08:42 PM: ...ahh.. more "Life of Brian" moments....
Brian: Please, please, please listen!
I've got one or two things to say.
The Crowd: Tell us! Tell us both of them!
Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong!
You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves!
You're ALL individuals!
The Crowd: Yes! We're all individuals!
Brian: You're all different!
The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different!
Let the schisms begin!
lol
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Jack.Webb wrote on November 10, 2011 08:38 PM: Republbagger Solution --
We can solve our fiscal problems by giving another tax cut to billionaires. That way the billionaires can afford their 2nd or 3rd mansion and a bigger yacht. Then the billionaires will hire us on as gardeners and maids and we will all be happy Americans.
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proud democrat wrote on November 10, 2011 08:34 PM: dirtroader....did you send a check when we invaded Iraq....is it only ok to spend taxpayer money when we invade another country for no reason....I GUARANTEE you the bush tax cuts will eventually be repealed....it is simple math....if a republican takes over the white house he will be forced into it ...and them blame it on the democrats
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Jack.Webb wrote on November 10, 2011 08:32 PM: The right-wing's venomous attacks on the semi-organized occupiers is an interesting phenomenon to behold.
Given that the occupiers comprise such a diverse group, with vague (at best, if not competing) goals, the Republibaggers sure do find them threatening as evidenced by the emotionality of their attacks (as we see herein).
More, the article above suggests that the occupiers are are a nebulous group indeed, and difficult to define, yet the crazed Republibaggers pretend to be able to do so. That comes as no surprise given that Republibaggers obsessive-compulsively make $#!+ up all the time whenever it is convenient for their purposes.
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Oscar.Jones wrote on November 10, 2011 08:25 PM: These bums are an insult to Working Americans. They resent anyone who has more than they do. Want Socialism? Want to redistribute working people's wealth? Go pound salt. I hope these Social Lice burn themselves out from infighting.
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dirtroader wrote on November 10, 2011 08:07 PM: proud democrat.....what's a "fair share"? How much do you (the collective liberal you)? Your CV may make you proud, but keep your paws off what's mine, ok? If you feel so deeply for the "lower classes" that you are proud to belong to, then get out that checkbook and start giving it away! I plan on keeping what I have worked hard to earn! Luckily those "Bush tax cuts" will never be repealed (heard today that the deal being brokered as part of the "deficit reduction" plan will keep them in place!) so you libs will have to look elsewhere to balance the budget. Maybe your union buddies will cough up some of the "extra" cash they are extorting. Enjoy, lib, enjoy. I know I'm happy with "what I've got" too....even if I'm not in your "lower class" with your CV....
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dirtroader wrote on November 10, 2011 07:56 PM: WOW! All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others, right? Just hilarious. Don't these people work? LOL! Donated warehouse space? Maybe they can....start a business there? Manufacture something? Start......working? Is that a stretch? Oh wait....it is....this animal farm collective is rallying AGAINST supporting themselves and being self-sufficient. Far easier to live on the donations of others, the government, or other like-minded enablers. What does an occupier do when he/she's 40? 50? 60? Become a ward of the state, of course! Better hope social security and obama care give you as comfy a lifestyle as mommy's basement! Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
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heckle wrote on November 10, 2011 07:47 PM: It's really sad but this is so typical of what is wrong with Nevada. You look around the country at all the Occupy movements and they somehow manage find donors, and give an appearance of some unity. But Nevada has to go into its black and white mode and have a few big fish in a small pond attempting to run everything. This would be so simple to fix. Form small volunteer groups who are responsible for one, and only one task, and that is their ONLY area of responsibility, being it organize funds, work with the County, or decide on protest subject matters. Then NO ONE is in control of EVERYTHING. But when you have a few people trying to control the entire movement it becomes a small group of people trying to control everything (kind of like the 1%).
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vegaslee wrote on November 10, 2011 07:46 PM: xfmrhsd, Do you work 50% of the time for free for others? I am betting you don't. There are some very great upstanding attorneys in this town and yes, there are some scum also. Seems the problem today is to many feel they know best on how everyone else, rich or poor should lead their lives. "Occupy" so far across the nation has not solved anything. They are like many that want to point out the problems but have no real answer on how to solve the problems. If more time was spent on finding answers instead of stirring pots people would be surprised what could be done in this country. Finding answers takes work and thought though. Something most don't want to do these days. This "fair share" that some speak of, just what is that. Fair seems different to everyone these days. As long as others pay more and you pay less you seem to think that is "fair".
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liberalslie wrote on November 10, 2011 07:46 PM: ROTFL. At least nobody has been shot here yet. Any rapes?
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proud democrat wrote on November 10, 2011 07:38 PM: lawyer...i sometimes wonder how you view us "lower classes"...my favorite voltaire quote is " To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered. " I hope we are both well mannered...lol...I am sorry for your hard life but you do not win the prize here if there is one. My masters is in psychology, I have a beautiful family, make a great living and also plan to retire in a few years. I also served my country for 10 years ( I somehow think we differ there). I think my CV stacks up very well thank you....time for you to pay your fair share
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Tracey.Rodell wrote on November 10, 2011 07:26 PM: Any group that has to worry about housing and feeding people obviously needs rules. If some people weren't capable of following those rules then it's best they left. There is a saying about being so open minded your brains fall out. That can apply to groups as well. Every organization that wants to succeed needs some basic rules and when people break them.. in some cases multiple times... then they have to expect something to happen as a result of those actions. They were asked to respect the rules or leave. And now they are gone from the site but still working with the larger group for events and actions. I guess you will always find a few folks who don't think the rules apply to them or we wouldn't all have to deal with the 1% issue at all.
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xfmrhsd wrote on November 10, 2011 07:25 PM: @lawyer, if even 1/3 of what you post about yourself is true, then very good for you. Glad your hard work has paid off. But you claim to be a lawyer, this makes you part of the leach community. Most of your gains would be ill gotten booty, dragged away from hard working victims you either defended or prosecuted. Shakespeare was right. Unless you did significant pro bono work. Which should at the least equal your for profit work in effort and result. Then I would be truly happy for your success. Otherwise you are a part of the problem.
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BillyL wrote on November 10, 2011 07:15 PM: Perhaps if Ms. Glass treated people with a little more respect, they would have a few more protesters. Would you like to be treated like this ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upkRNVOfmSI The Occupy Las Vegas camp was co-opted in a middle of the night "emergency" meeting by Opportunities Las Vegas corporation. A movement against corporate power run by a corporation... that seems a bit odd.
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JamieMK wrote on November 10, 2011 07:05 PM: The story of the split is also told at occupylv dot org for anyone willing to read, inspect the video links and the information provided.
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Lawyer wrote on November 10, 2011 07:03 PM: @Proud Democrat: If these OWS protesters were treated illegally, I would defend them to the best of my ability. One of my favorite sayings is from Voltaire, which states "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it to the death." My comment simply pointed out the obvious: OWS and their splinter groups are incapable of enacting any meaningful change because a term as broad as "stop corporate greed" means absolutely nothing. Pol Pot did what many of the OWS favor; tried to reset the clock to "year zero" and forced wealthy, educated urban dwellers to work on community farms, hoping to build an equal egalitarian/agricultural society. Signs held by some OWS say as much, favoring a worker party and elimination of all banks. If they had a specific agenda, maybe there would not be so much infighting (which has doomed a lot of 3rd party start ups). So please Proud Democrat, don't accuse me of being a fascist. I have more degrees than you lie about, I have no mortgage, a cabin, and I had no parental help because they both died when I was very young in Louisiana. I worked very hard for what I have, lived in my car when I went out on my own--and I take offense when people call me greedy or want to redistribute my earnings. I plan to retire in a few years and want to enjoy my golden years. My health is good (vegetarian) and I have a lot of living I want to do. Keep your hands off my money.
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xfmrhsd wrote on November 10, 2011 06:40 PM: Loss of harmony in the commune? say it aint so! I thought tis was about the 99% with that bad 1% the enemy, but now its all about the right kind of 99% which apparently is about 29%.__________Tear gas???! please these fleabaggers are used to strong smells. Don't bother.____________ I know people in their foreclosed homes not paying the mortgage, they don't want attention! Stay away! They are occupying all by themselves thank-you._____________Most of the occunuts go home? Leaving a new homeless shelter, at least some good came out of this silliness.
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proud democrat wrote on November 10, 2011 06:33 PM: peaceful democratic protest....and lawyer thinks they are the same as pol pot...whats the matter...afraid to make the hitler comment so many others have made...i hope i never live in a country where OWS is outlawed
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Mr.Mark wrote on November 10, 2011 06:32 PM: This is like a really bad Mel brooks movie. Nobody has a clue, but they all think they have the answer if only they knew what the question was. in other words, a good liberal who looks to the Govt for everything. Including a place to protest
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elveret.odamit wrote on November 10, 2011 06:26 PM: I figured squatters were confused as to what the protests were all about. hopefully it won`t become burn baby burn or Kent St. Obama backed squatters are confused up just like his Obamanomics.
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Lawyer wrote on November 10, 2011 06:22 PM: These OWS protesters claim to have all the answers and want a new society, radical new changes (think Pol Pot who killed 25% of Cambodia), yet they can't agree on how to manage a piddly 1.4 acre parcel of land that was essentially given to them.
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